So in Zac's, Sean's talking about the book of Isaiah, written 700 years before the birth of Christ, foretelling the first Christmas, when Blossom has this vision.
In it he sees himself with angelic wings (industrial strength - he's a large lad) causing a stir in the heavens. A great stirring of the air as he comes in to land with the grace and manoeuvrability of a B52 bomber, scattering less sturdy angels in his wake.
The image is, um, yes, unnerving. It's hard to concentrate after that.
We'd progressed this far only after some diversion, again involving Blossom and a green stump shooting. I won't go any further down that road; it's a long climb back up the hill.
I met Tony. We spoke a little and I asked him how he came to be in Zac's. He laughed, 'It's a long story. Are you sure you want to hear it?'
His story started in boarding school, progressed to satanism - 'I was heavily into that, really heavily' - then prison for armed robbery, followed by the army, to where he is now. 'Oh, yes, and I'm a recovered alcoholic.'
He has seen both sides and he has no doubt which is best. 'And no-one can accuse me of not knowing what it's like: I've been in prison, an alcoholic, a satanist. I know what it's like.'
While in prison he taught himself to draw and earned tobacco from the other inmates for his portraits of their wives and girlfriends, and he got an A-level in Art. I had briefly mentioned that I had been in university (prior to a motorbiking trip round France and Spain) and I sensed a degree course - in Art maybe - is something that he would love to do. He hasn't drawn since 1991; it would be fantastic to see him pick it up again.
T was with me last night. She is an artist and musician who, because of the way her life went, has neither played nor created for the last few years. She's started sketching in Zac's. Doodling she calls it. (Masterpieces I would call them if I'd done them!) She is coming back to life and it is wonderful to see.
That's not just the Zac effect - other things are changing for her - but it is playing a large part. As Lily agreed last night, 'Zac's is a comfortable place.' Not comfortable in the seating or what happens there, but in the quiet respectful loving way of meeting with all sorts that Jesus had and that characterises the place.